Hiring Great People Starts with a Great Job and Skilled Recruiting
Introducing our recruiting expert, Lou Adler
[00:00:02] Hi everybody. Thanks for joining today. We're thrilled to have you on the line for today's webinar performance based hiring hiring great people starts with the great job and a skilled recruiter. My name is Robert Dean on the marketing team here at LinkedIn and before I turn things over to our speaker today. Let me just go through a couple of housekeeping items for everybody please do note that everyone on the line today is muted. So if you do have any questions feel free to type them into the company box to the right of your screen. We'll be monitoring that throughout the session as well as have a dedicated Q and A session at the end where we'll answer all your questions if you'd like to share their learnings today. Please use the hashtag higher to win. Also note that the presentation and recording will be sent out by e-mail after the webinar. You can also access the slides just to the right of the screen as well. If you'd like to download the presentation. And then lastly please we'd love it if you could take the time to the webinar and you'll see that there is the survey beneath the window there and at the end of the webinar as well to shift to take the time to sort that out and let us know how we're doing. It really helps shape the content we deliver and ensure that we're delivering quality content. And with that I'm going to go ahead and introduce our speaker today Lou Adler. He's the CEO and founder of the Adler group and the creator performance based hiring. And with that I'm going to turn it over to Lou.
[00:01:23] Great. Thanks very much Robert I appreciate it. Hey Lou Adler we've got a pretty intense program here.
[00:01:33] What I want to do and I didn't know I was going to be talking about all this stuff. So I've got a three panel program I'm going to do in 45 minutes. So do I say it very fast and you can listen to it back very slowly that's the humor of this program which isn't great but we do our best.
[00:01:51] I want to talk about a totally different concept of I don't call it high touch small batch recruiting.
[00:01:58] The content is the ideas you don't need a lot of candidates to make a great hire but you do need I think we can recruit critical skills identify 15 20 25 great people. You've got to get them to talk to you and you've got to get them on the phone. You've got to convince them your job is worthy and you gotta keep in close to me that's what I want to kind of talk about today is this whole concept of high touch small batch recruiting. And it is a different mindset. So let me give you this overview of this mindset. One of the big ones is.
Performance-based hiring: start with a great job
[00:02:32] Let's change our whole philosophy of weeding out these people I don't like to talk to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds or see hundreds and hundreds of resonators of people not going to waste time. We have all this technology to figure out who you can hire who you should talk to. We don't need that let's just find people we're going to talk to a recruiter. I mean I know that sounds kind of weird but that's the idea. So I have this concept which is performance based hiring and I've been using it for 12 years.
[00:03:02] It says Hey you want to start with great if you want to end up with a great hire three or four weeks from now a great a level person. You got to start with a great job and I actually say this to hiring managers hey this is not a job description listing a bunch of skills it's not a great job. Let's redefine the job and I'm going to show you how to do that very quickly.
[00:03:22] What does this person need to do and why is it a career move. That's the first phase the finding the job. The second phase is let's go out and find people who want to do that work and would see their jobs accrue. OK looking for a director of accounting at a big company. Let me go to the mistake that I'm looking for a director of accounting at a mid-sized company who's going to want to do their job. Probably a senior manager at a bigger company. We're looking for software developer who's kind of been stagnant I look at it and I find some companies that aren't growing as fast and I'll seek those people out. That to me is how you find people. You got a recruiter a person he got interview on which is the third step in it and you got to be an accurate interviewer.
[00:04:04] I mean I don't know about you guys but let me put this in chat Robert. Robert you just tell me if this is a case that we have the types of people on here have you if you're a recruiter Have you ever worked with a hiring manager or seen on the interviewing team who misjudged to incorrectly evaluated the candidate. Just put yes or no on that. Let me also say if you're not a recruiter or you are a hiring manager towel leader. Have you ever had a recruiter who's misjudged the quality of a candidate. Well in the last two weeks I've talked to about 30 recruiters and that 10 hiring managers they all answered Yes well you know we could interview people you're wasting your time even talking to the candidate. But then you gotta close the deal. And I know we've all been in situations where we didn't have enough money in the budget other candidate got a counter offer the candidate acted out well that's what recruiting is about. Guys you've got to find the work you got to find the candidate and interview a problem you've got to close the deal of your budget. That's what I want to talk about today. Great job. Is the beginning. Great hires the end. Here's my little vision of the talent market.
It’s about quality: Spend more time recruiting fewer people
[00:05:13] The whole boot that circles the talent market the teardrop is with the distribution of people who typically apply a few good people at the top. But a lot of people are never going to hire. Can you figure out how do I manage that. So my philosophy is forget that let's just find the top 25 percent people 20 or 30 of them and we could have got to obviously give the talk to us so we gotta get them convinced that the jobs are we've got to close the deal get in a real problem. A different philosophy I have spend more time or less.
[00:05:45] Let's spend more time with fewer people and we'll wind up with a higher quality at the same point three or four weeks from now will wind up hiring a person no extra cost no extra time. It's just a different approach. I liken it to a tour bus site can Metrobus. I contend that most recruiters drive a metro bus. It's got a destination which is a list of skills experience and qualifications that the hiring managers ask you to find out in this kind of people who want to go on that Metro bus and are willing to take in lateral transfer and you actually hope a good person gets on the bus. You hope then we do more in which we just spread the market but we still put in an advanced union we still put people on this natural bus. We don't want to drive the metro bus. I drive the tour bus and I find people that a lot of people I put them on the bus.
[00:06:39] I work like get them on a bus and they don't get off the bus still give me referrals so that's I want to go through. How do you drive this tour bus which is sinking a little bit backwards so this is where I want to go today and feel free to ask questions as we go along.
[00:06:57] Robert is monitoring them. If they're impactful questions and meaningful questions Robert has the right to interrupt me. So go ahead.
[00:07:06] Because I'd rather answer the questions in the context of the job. So we really do have the whole program we'll answer to and is going to be built into the thing although I'll certainly save time for the end. Look at the total strategic viewpoint of these questions.
Identify the small batch process and its four zones of candidates
[00:07:21] But here's the catch. I want to pivot to a less is more a concept. We're going to focus on high quality candidates. We're going to spend more time with fewer people so we're going to raise the quality time to fill could be faster but it will never be any longer in the course should be pretty reasonable.
[00:07:40] There's a reason why of course wouldn't be okay or shouldn't be any higher. Now I want to introduce you to what I call the 40 40 20 small batch process 40 40 20 small batch and I'm looking at that talent market on the left tablet market is what I said that's a total talent market. And I contend there are four subsets of that that most recruiters focus on. And as I described them I want you to think about where you spend most of your time and in the chat when I'm done with it I'd like chat just monitor this chat I'm going to ask people Are they mostly in zone 1 2 3 or 4. And I'll explain that in a minute. So Zone 1 is what I contend are a bunch of active candidates who are skills qualified most job postings emphasize skills and are focusing on active candidates.
[00:08:44] We get a few decent ones but you get a read employer brand you don't get the decent ones. So when companies are in that situation they go to phase two of sourcing which is heavy direct sourcing.
[00:08:57] Do other black boolean advanced doing which is very important to go on LinkedIn and look on skills and all the links and filters there but they're still going after active candidates with a largely skills qualified but because they're reaching out to people who might not have senior and you get higher quality people and you get more. So nothing wrong with that. It's interesting concept. I don't like the concept but you still get that if evil. So I changed the rules.
Performance-qualified candidates are often better than skills-qualified candidates
[00:09:23] My rules are I don't want candidates who are skills qualified. I want candidates who are performance qualified meaning they can do the work I said they are going to convince that these people can do the work they just have a different mix of skills. Why would you want to exclude all diverse candidates of different mix of skills. They are different.
[00:09:43] The high potential candidates have different sets of skills that they get promoted more quickly so don't have enough time. And not only they performance qualified they also see the job as a career move all the sudden. I still regret sourcing. I still use LinkedIn recruiter. I use clever boolean terms which I find the top 25 percent and then I have a very aggressive messaging plan to find and I'll give you some examples of that messaging. That's phase 3 Phase 4. Ah my preferred candidate. A hundred percent call me back. The performance qualified a reach out to people sometimes in my network sometimes a referral sometimes matter from my employees they said Who is the best person you know doing a cross cross stocking systems on a GOP platform. That's personal. I'm not looking I don't care who's the best person you know. Now if somebody gives me the name I can now call that person up and recruit them which I'll give you some ideas on how to do it. So now I just want to ask. Robert is where do you think most people. So this is a question to everybody honorless all the people are answering. What do you spend most you time zones 1 2 3 or 4. Just put the numbers down. I just and Robert if he can just tell me what they say. Hopefully people understood the question if not ignore it. But my question to you is then most two time zones 1 2 3 or 4.
[00:11:13] Yeah I would say was executive recruiter is a good agency recruiters do a lot of threes and fours but a lot of people and a lot of it you gotta convince the hiring manager to change so I don't want to say that it's easy to do 3 and 4 but I'm saying that's how you have.
The 40-40-20 plan: break up time spent on active, direct sourced, and passive clients
[00:11:30] That's where we all want to kind of get some ideas how to get to 3 or 4. That's and I call it the 40 40 20 at least that's the plan. Let me kind of describe it and I'll show you how to do it. So the 40 40 20 plan says it's okay to spend 20 percent only 20 percent of your time going after active candidates. What we want is for active candidate to perform as qualified and to see the jobs approval.
[00:11:53] You're not going to find a lot of talent scarce situation but you'll find a few ones and I'm going to still drive all my candidates the very clever postings and I'll show you if you want it that's 20 percent 30 percent is going after direct source candidates and I get it. But this is 3. I'm not going to use I'm going to use minimal skills maximum performance qualifications. If we need the person to lead the launch of a new product line that's performance qualified they can lead the launch of it and do it well obviously they are qualified but I'll give you some examples of how you do 40 percent. Clever brilliant clever direct sourcing changing rules performance qualifying rule but it also has to have very very compelling messages because we got a good response rates up to 50 60 percent. Only deal with 20 or 30 people. So we got to get a very high response rate. So that's the tipping point an hour a couple tipping points and then a final one is another 40 percent on referrals. So I was working at a recruiting firm the other day.
[00:12:52] I was very disappointed. Do some that they came back they presented five candidates to the hiring manager and I'm sitting there in the advisory position I said Okay where were those candidates from of the five you presented to the senior manager job. How did you find it.
[00:13:07] Well this case three were active candidates who responded to a boring ad and two or direct source that were skills qualified. Not one of them is even in the game. So I said Now I want to reach for every five to referrals that are part.
[00:13:22] This is one of the metrics I use when I deal with recruiters and I help my clients deal with recruiters that way to candidates who direct source that are perfectly performance qualified. I'll take two that are directed at me excuse me referred that are performance qualified to that of a direct source of performance firefight and one actor whose performance was different metrics of want to see how you get there and how we get there.
A different recruiting funnel: target people who aren’t candidates, but prospects
[00:13:45] The idea again is I don't need a lot of people I need the right people. Only the third and my recruiting funnel is a bit different as well. I have a different recruiting firm there now. I don't these people don't apply my 20 or 30 are not applying at the top of the funnel. Some of them convinced to become prospects first. This is a career move. Some are going to give me leads to other prospects. Some of be future prospects for other jobs. None of them are going to be candidates so I'm not looking for active candidates that will see this.
[00:14:22] If a person is in a little town that is very active a level I'm going to have to move quickly but I still might not drive them to the person to apply. But that's a possibility if you're active. If they're not active know where they're going to have to apply just blocks too many candidates out. So that's my 40 40 20 plan.
[00:14:43] Heavy networking appropriate direct sourcing great compelling job postings and advertising. Robert let me just stop there because I want to get into a little bit more tactics. A question that you think are relevant and meaningful. I don't want to I want people to also know that they can ask questions during the program.
[00:15:02] I think we're okay. For now though I don't keep going we just encourage everyone if you have questions ask them throughout and I'll hop in and feed them too if it makes sense.
[00:15:10] Yeah I know they go first. I get excited about this so it's not perfectly clear. Feel free to but I'll be happy to clarify it out.
[00:15:21] Okay so now I want to kind of go. This is the question I have for you guys.
[00:15:28] Are you in a little discussion on that go ahead.
[00:15:32] I'm just asking if you can really define direct source.
[00:15:38] Yes a direct source candidate as you go on LinkedIn recruiter or Google or a search engine and you look usable. I want to and you basically say a candidate of the filtering would be is.
[00:15:53] I think that's a mechanical engineer turbo background high speed dynamics of the right degrees you just see a general searching link then get a search or can you do a google to find recipes and all the bullying blackmail stuff you go out reaching out for a candidate and then you have a list of names. Try to contact them either via voicemail or email and so you're trying to maximize your response rates. That's what I call direct sourcing. Reaching out to people just the people the only people who respond are those who are active who are interested in your message. That's what I that's what that means. That's a very important question.
Don’t use a recruiting strategy for a surplus of talent when there is a scarcity of talent
[00:16:30] Now I want to ask everybody a question. I want you to think about your most critical positions. And for those critical positions are you in a surplus situation mean there are plenty of local candidates responding to your general e-mails and postings or direct sourcing whatever it is you get plenty good people to choose from. Or are you in a scarcity situation where the demand for talent is greater than the supply. So just put the term before the word surplus are scarce. You have plenty of great candidates to choose from or you scarcity. You don't have a lot of candidates to choose from.
[00:17:03] The demand is high despite scarcity or surplus.
[00:17:08] Your basic situation assume you've seen coming through Robert tell me what the words are looks like water scarcity is definitely outpacing the rights that tend to want.
[00:17:26] Okay so let me make this statement. This is the only thing you hear from this program that you think is valuable. It will be a game changer in everything you do from this moment forward. Every single candidate you ever recruit or implement a process get. This is the key point here. And you could you have to own this point. You cannot use a surplus of talent strategy in a scarcity of talent situation. I'll say it again and I'll demonstrate what it means. You cannot use a surplus of talent model or recruiting strategy in a scarcity of talent situation and I'm going to attend to what I'm about to explain now is another one reason why companies have difficulty hiring at the top.
[00:18:09] So let me just explain if I can find a site. I contend that there are four big decision buckets in the whole hiring process that affect you that affect your hiring system that affect your hiring manager in affect your candidate to have a bucket is what typically is listed on open job descriptions. It's a list of skills and competencies candidates put résumé together that list those things.
[00:18:37] There's a lot of companies that have technology that mix and match those things. You're ATF mixes and matches those things and tries to put the best to keep people the best mix and matching at the top of the list. Based on what a person has in terms of skills and experiences.
[00:18:54] The second step is when you start talking with candidates they're interested in what they get on day one what they get what they want is a job title a salary a location and a company name what you give is a compensation and you do box checking. So a lot of decisions are made on what a person has and what they get on day one. In fact we negotiate the salary before the can even those with the job is it for the tactical reasons we don't want to waste anybody's time. But if you decide to waste people's time who are actually really good people. And you talk to a local town in a level town. Why did you this other person take our job after they got through all this rigmarole.
[00:19:40] They truly are an outstanding person. You said I did it because of the work I'm going to be doing and who I'm doing it in year one to the third boss the doing is what they do in your wanting to work itself the culture the environment the manager and the people they work with and if they do it successfully it can be something you want to be out. So if you look at a timeline havingness the path of getting is day 1 doing as you want becoming is the future and I'm going to attend that if your company continues to be the right skills based job descriptions you actually have a surplus of talent mindset at your model. The process is weeding out the weak you're targeting active candidates and you hire the best who are not the best available but the best to apply. That's why you have the teardrop that you have left or right process. My process is totally different and my approach has been totally different the day I became a recruiter. Before 95 percent of people on this call were born in 1978. My first job as a plant manager from automotive manufacturing company. So what does this person need to do. What is a plant for an hour. And I found seven things a personal thing they do and four weeks later I play my first placement. I have never used a job description since that day. I always ask the hiring manager what a person need to do to be in the top 45 percent. And look at the what if they were successful what could they become.
The first question candidates need to think about is not salary—it’s whether this job is a career move
[00:21:00] I changed the rules changed the rules entirely.
[00:21:07] Let's emphasize what people can do and become if they can do the work. They obviously have exactly the skills. The reason that he got promoted to Director of Marketing she didn't have seven years but she could manage people too smart to take what she could do to work. So for internal promotions we promote people exactly what they can do and we're pretty accurate. Having been on site I don't negotiate the compensation on the first half I call Mary up so this is I'm going to give you some objections here had to overcome to get people on my tour bus. I called Mary up and I asked Mary this question. She's a referred candidate. I found a direct source very I'm very impressed with your background. I'm working a specific situation and the chances they represent the majority I'm not involved with representing clear career move. Would you at least be open to chat for a few minutes. Would you be open to exploring situations superior to what you're doing today vs. might. What's the compensation. And I say Mariel's we roll back if the job isn't a career move it doesn't matter what we pay you. Let's first see if it's a career move. We'll see if the pay works. I'm not going to negotiate compensation before the candidate knows a job or find all the candidates a hypothetical person and people say oh you can't waste time well you deal with all people I deal with like them areas of the world. If she's not a candidate I'll get three referrals from my whole focus is right to left not left to right.
[00:22:42] I'm going to contend that's the fundamental reason is you. You have a strategy that's built backwards. You have a strategy based on a surplus of talent. Mindset when a surplus of talent doesn't exist in a scarcity situation you must focus on what people can do to become. Reach out to them and pull them in.
[00:23:03] I just did that with Mary which is hey let's talk about what you can do and become I now have the hiring manager Bill. Bill as I say now as a know who has this an ego cut people said and others only get. So there is some changes and this what I say it's kind of frustrating for a recruiter because you're your processes your ATS I like letter right with the world of top talent is design right and good recruiters understand hey I gotta go outside the system. Now I think the system is changing slowly to this year at least conceptually the right left model but until the 80s until you can't people to your hiring managers agree that hey we're going to change the rules of how we're going right to left not left or right. Until that happens we're still going to fight about. But I think recruiters good recruiters good recruiters can enforce this right to left mentality but it starts at the intake meeting.
Stop describing jobs or people. Define what the candidate needs to do to be successful in the job.
[00:24:00] You see the hiring manager has a bunch of skills or experience listed you say as a hiring manager that's not a job description skills experience and education.
[00:24:10] That's not a job description of a person description. Let's put the person description in the parking lot. What does the person need to do to be successful.
[00:24:22] Get some of them may not going to do this but they may say that hiring managers at hiring that I've ever met someone who's got all these skills degrees and competencies who's not been a great person. I said so having the skills doesn't predict they're going to be great but you just promoted Mary to senior director of marketing. She didn't have the skills and after four months she's remarkable for the ability and potential that we got to focus on her ability to do the work and motivation to do the work. Amanda Okay so I just ask the question what does this person need to do to be successful. And I literally ask this question to 20000 managers.
[00:25:04] Now the reason is in 1990 I got became a resource to a business group of CEOs. And it was like 4000 CEOs in the company in this group. They all built in groups of 10 to 15 people called Tech at the time called Vista. Now if you're familiar with it why IPO Young Presidents Organization. My next door neighbor got me a resource of these companies and all I get to show these two circles.
[00:25:28] They said What does a person need to do to be successful.
[00:25:30] And every person or every job has five or six performance objectives that start with an action group launch a new product design a new circuit build the team inside the international accounting system which Salesforce the dot com to become a world class analytics package it provides instant insights everything going on in our sales funnel people do stuff that manufacturing plant what the person needs to do to be the plant manager the manufacturing facility and I've asked 20000 managers this question.
[00:26:04] Who's your other hire someone can achieve all these objectives. Or someone has the exact list of skills few people realize and so I want both.
[00:26:14] I said Well let's be real frank if they can do the work they have they couldn't they couldn't do the work there. I restate that if we can do the work we can prove they have obviously the skills needed but everyone know Mary has a little different mix of skills so it's the ability to do the work that determines the skills they need the skills of the terminal do the work.
Encourage hiring managers to ask the right questions in intake meetings
[00:26:34] So this is the key this is a dance I have to make with the hiring manager want to court the candidates and ask them Would you be open to explore a situation that was clearly superior to what you're doing today measuring against what they need to do.
[00:26:46] Now I also as a hiring manager. Before I get out of an unsafe meeting this is in defining the jobs stage. I said okay why would a top person want this job. What's the employee value proposition.
[00:26:58] What's in it for the candidate. What can they do. What can they become as a result of this. What motivates these people to excel. Why is this work exciting. And I don't read the InTech meaning well it's true. I hear it takes a couple generations to do this but I rarely.
[00:27:17] Have a hiring manager who is unwilling to do. Now I sometimes have to guide them along and hold their hands and do it and because I've done so many jobs I kind of know what I never get the case that the hiring manager for Landshut GIMA probably does this in this control. Do you have any reporting issues. Do you have any international forensic accounting issues concerns how's your operational or whatever it is out of feed the feed the hiring manager what I want the hiring manager to own the performance based job description because I want when they meet my candidates I want them to evaluate the candidates on the candidates ability and motivation to do that work. If they're not focusing on that they're going to focus on first impressions were they liked the person and to have the box check the right skills. So a lot of what this building this job description is not only from sourcing but also to get the accurate interview what people want to perform.
[00:28:12] They don't want to do their work or they don't like the hiring manager. All those things are important. So this is this this is the first step. Robert any questions on this.
[00:28:20] This is a move we talk about strategy will become one. Here's how you define what they can do and become. It starts right here.
Using this performance-based model for contract roles
[00:28:20] This is a move we talk about strategy will become one. Here's how you define what they can do and become. It starts right here.
[00:28:27] One question came through from Joanne asking if this model works with contract versus full time roles.
[00:28:42] Yes. We did a lot work in 2008 with a lot of military companies. If you're hiring a lot of people at the time was Obamacare and the military was kind of growing or changing whatever it was of if you were above average contractors it works but the way you're going to get a contractor to go from rather than stay on an existing project is he.
[00:29:06] This is the kind of work you can be doing you shouldn't be growing you shouldn't be developing. So a contractor who either does high quality work or wants to continue to grow and develop it would still work. We actually did it for about 15 years ago now the YMCA called us and said hey we're hiring 100000 camp counselors think the model would work. So the summer of 2003 we went out and visited eight camps summer camps with had dozens of counselors at each camp.
[00:29:36] We went to urban camp city camps big camps small camps and we benchmark with good counselors do differently and that's one way to get these. Sometimes I just ask I said Okay what are the best people do differently. And we found our camp counselor that we create a 30 minute interview hire camp counselors and the focus was not on is this person friendly and the senior counselors would want to date these younger counselors whatever it was. We changed the rules to performance not emotions. So we were not found a single job in any category that it doesn't work. There could be some but we just haven't found it yet. But I got to keep on moving out.
How to source the right people using LinkedIn Recruiter
[00:30:13] So now let me kind of go to the sourcing piece if you do to capture these people's attention again I'm only started with 20 to 25 people. I'm going to go and listen. Generally speaking I use LinkedIn recruiter pretty exclusively. I'll do a search for a certain candidate. Let's assume that this will just go back to this let me just kind of give you a sense.
[00:30:37] I can't do the whole thing but let's assume I was looking for a circuit design engineer. Three to five years experience or seven or eight years experience. I might just put let's assume that the person is Well I know there's a double if they're really good. Probably has a few patterns so I'm gonna look for the word achieve. I know that's how the pie is an honor society but I might just put the word society now in Kathmandu. The Electrical Engineering Society done searches like that so I said What does this person have.
[00:31:10] We did it we did some work with a construction engineer and we found that some of the people in this engineering are part of government committees that set standards so we work with the words standards committee so that our turmoils of what a good people do differently than an average person and we just focus on one or two high level skills. Obviously they have to have this or just one skill and then everything else achieve returns. So now we can find the right people. We also search on Who Do We Know Who do we know who would know a construction engineer so for that project we found some architects in the local area who are designing state of the art buildings. We actually looked for architects who study our buildings research search and we connect them with search and their connections.
[00:31:57] So we found a group of 50 to 20 25 people actually I think two to three hours we had we had our pool identified. It was easy he only to be recruiting got to be thinking through what a good people do. I don't want to minimize that but you have to have good messaging. So we cannot just talk about some messaging as an idea. No member I'm going to skip towns here's not a good situation I got to track people in. I now know what they can do with that. get to respond to my messages. So that's a critical tipping point in this scarcity of talent.
Now that you have the talent pool, you need strategic messaging to get them to engage
[00:32:41] So I have what I call a campaign guerrilla marketing approach and Talent Sourcing. I'll do whatever I have to do multiple emails I'll meet with people or text them. Let's meet for lunch. I have a hiring manager reach out and send me emails and I actually have one construction engineer. I found a superb candidate for this spot. I found out he worked downtown L.A. He took a train from downtown L.A. to Santa Monica. You're familiar with the area and somebody told me whatever it was he was part of a society of. So I think he's great. That was awesome but he only would talk to you always answer a cell phone from like 5 1 4 6 o'clock.
[00:33:23] So then I guess I said Hey would you take a call from the president the company. So I had a present company call. They met and I think they're now negotiating a very senior level staff. But the humor that I'll do whatever I can to talk to these people again I'm not spending a lot of time with.
[00:33:39] I'm spending a lot of time with few people not a lot of time with a lot of people a little time a lot of people. So whatever it is I'll do I've had some hiring managers call these people often invite them in. I get my employee referral program that's a permanent employer proactive employee referrals. I have them. Who's the best person you know.
[00:33:57] A lot of things we have to do. Let me give you some examples of it at least from the concept. I saw this one recruitment advertising agency in New York McCrackin Williams. I give credit because I just love this posting make you're making your jobs irresistible since 1968. The one that I found that I search back for that was for a cost analyst for a building.
[00:34:18] I was a homebuilder back in East Coast and this is the kind of message that I saw that maybe track these people down Franklin Williams the editor said. Your attention to detail is what drives our profitability everyday. This is for a cost analyst and it met the e-mail. Other top of the line for the job posting the first one did cost decimator World's Greatest homebuilder. But the first line said your attention to detail is what drives our profitability. The fear of course analyst is that must have five years experience. It's a track what they really want me. They really want me.
Job branding means capturing the key things that drive a person’s intrinsic motivator in just a few words
[00:35:03] Well that's what you got to capture. If you have to be capturing a tweet sized version that the key thing that drives a person's intrinsic motivator. I call job branding. Let me give you some examples. This is one that was a woman who went to our training program. I just said you got to capture it. I said the same work you got to capture the intrinsic motivator and it was a life program probably five or six years ago and the woman said she's had to fight to flight nurses for a program I think was Northern California. Five hospitals looking for three months of the traditional had. And nobody was responding. I just asked the question why do people do that job.
[00:35:44] Joining me to I forget what if you're talking why did they do it. That's got to help save lives every day. So I said why don't you just put a tagline in the job paid off like nurses helping save lives every day.
[00:35:54] The next week of programs for weeks lives and I sat next week. She said I just did anybody have any luck here this blood curdling scream in the background. She says unbelievable idea that I got 14 responses and 14 looked pretty good. Two weeks later she calls me Mrs. Lou I can't believe I had 30 total responses. Seven were outstanding people I hired two for the fleetness program and two for the emergency room. And all she did was change tack right. I'm sitting there 10 years ago. The hiring managers and said You guys have to capture the intrinsic motivator installing and the marketing team was in the group.
[00:36:39] They said what's your toughest position to fill is what we're trying to fill. Hire some interns can interns you want we have a real creative way round bosses were just not getting or getting people are very creative. We don't seem to get the best ones that we have that the tagline that captures creativity. Now I didn't come up with that. The V.P. marketing calls me two weakness. What do you think of this one.
[00:36:57] Lou prepare white papers in any color you want. This is for interments prepare white papers in any call you as blown away.
[00:37:06] That bilingual that shows creativity intern in the gate and it's all because to me he called me unbelievable. We got so many great creative people of having a creative tagline this is one for accounting for.
[00:37:23] Now it is a manufacturing company in San Diego and they initially had said must have ten five to 10 years experience in manufacturing must be when you travel internationally you must know the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act must be to have a CPA from a bid for but nobody would apply.
[00:37:39] That's what it's least make the travel a positive for the usual CPAC the world. And then he takes a lead on implementing it. You know we use your CPA and take a leave of operating out international reporting in a critical area. It made this stuff important. Not a must have appeal. People are tracking.
Identify the positive, appealing part of a job by telling a compelling story
[00:38:01] Here's another one of the emails once you get anymore people so I had a search. This is a real search from five years ago I don't do much search anymore. I just help people figure out. So the assignment the hours you get rid of it I cannot go in it. It's going to get a little hard to read. I have another itinerary.
[00:38:20] It was in the Midwest an area that I found on an unappealing absolutely had to have a relocation it was a rural area but it was an airport job after a California.
[00:38:31] Our company was grown I found literally on the way home on the flight back I found 20 or 25 people within 100 to 200 miles of that area. I cherry picked them meaning I found people who would see this job as a V.P. HRR as a career move.
[00:38:47] I knew the location was bad but I found people from bigger companies who were senior directors about 20 or 30 people you might if you can't read this I'll read it very closely for you.
[00:38:59] But I said I actually called this is an open letter from the CEO to my next BPH H.R. and I put it in there I said hey this is what the guy told me but I need your help making our business as big as it can be. I don't want to read it but it basically really appeals to somebody that's having a seat at the strategic table rebuilding the entire HRR infrastructure of companies growing fast. They're screwing it up they're having labor problems.
[00:39:25] Employment issues. I mean it was literally and it was a bad area.
[00:39:31] If you're up for the challenge and it's something I consider semi a happy driver or something you've accomplished.
[00:39:36] One of our board members took it back literally in two days I had seven people responding.
[00:39:43] I had half of half the people responded without me sending a second email.
[00:39:48] By the end of the week two the people gave me referrals to the people. Finally I closed the deal. Like three weeks. Not one skill was that not a single skill list.
Don’t look at a person’s skills. Look at their position, their company, and who they know.
[00:39:58] It was a story about a person can do that's how you get high response rates Captain intrinsic motivator tell stories make it what people are going to do and become an appeal to those people and the people I've sent it to. I thought they would see the job as a group.
[00:40:13] I didn't go to BPH after the company of all the skills they didn't look at skills. I looked at it. If you're if you're a senior director of HRT a big company you've got all the skills you need.
[00:40:23] I don't need to search on skills I just had to figure out okay what I did search and the term I put the word award and honor and society. I probably put Sherman there and speaker because I wanted people who were that caliber level but that's the kind you don't need bullies to do that you have to be a rocket scientist you could just be clever.
[00:40:43] What do these people put in a resume is what do they do. Who do they know.
[00:40:47] Here's one that was a woman who you can read this one. She's having trouble hiring director of engineers.
[00:40:57] And she called me up and says look I can get anybody had really good to get a great response rate she's been left right there least is one of the top five. All of a sudden you couldn't get anybody. Well her company is going through a merger and everybody knew that so what I said which is the people that change the words a little bit but I so want to think about a future state. Hey we've got to emerge. Everybody probably knows that but we're redefining our senior engineering positions. I don't know what's going to shake out here. But look the challenge is if one of these jobs three to six months would make sense.
[00:41:29] With the rivalry now 20 or so people no response within three days you had half the people's money. So the idea is to start thinking about what real people do how to good people find jobs and then implement you're sourcing the 40 40 percent.
[00:41:47] That's pretty much it. I drive everybody to my creative apps again. It's a story here. Not a single skill. Well this case it says see UI engineering starts to change a story here that you don't want to put it in there but the skills were not there I mean they're seeing you x and you are engineering and they kind of have a sense of the company as you need a lot of skills. People know that they don't know their skills. It doesn't really matter how many people apply to jobs as a totally unqualified to read anyway so why bother. So any such a kind if I want to put a few people on the bus and do some posting here Robert but I'll take a question or two if anything's popped up.
Getting candidates to say yes after an initial response
[00:42:31] Robert can I hear you.
[00:42:33] Oh yeah. No sorry about that. I am here. Are we. We've got plenty. Questions sort of flow back in to more of a performance based hiring.
[00:42:43] At this point I just couldn't keep on going and I think we can tell what it is once you find one real good question. I'll staff at the end of the next flight and I'm actually going to add the group come up with objections yes I'm going to ask you to ask me questions but see if you find one Robert who doesn't get to be I call this summer blue.
[00:43:01] How do you get candidates to say yes because now you got we get you started with 30 people 15 actually responded. I'll and the like. So the question I typically ask is a question that begins with Yes would you be open to explore a situation if we were clearly superior to what you're doing today and most people say yes.
[00:43:23] I mean that's obvious. I don't even put much information and I say he would be overlooked for senior financial manager position. A career sense of that for that cost estimate or spot I would say would you like to be a cost estimate. No I'm not interested in that. So would you open be overlooked for senior financial fodder. Oh I'm happy doing that. So you got to be careful you don't want to give so much information away that the candidate says no let me can also give you a tip when you ask a candidate. Would you be open to explore a situation if it were close superior to what you're doing today.
[00:44:00] Too many recruiters start selling the job they set only to only tell you that out the tweet up and you don't really know the job is. So I give you the fundamental rule. If I said the big strategic thing about this program was do not use a surplus of talent model in a scarcity of talent situation.
Don’t sell the job, sell the next step—it’s about job increase
[00:44:26] The most practical tactical advice they can give you is don't sell the job sell the next step don't sell the job sell the discussion to someone in Mary honesty's be open to explore a situation of or clearly superior to what you're doing today. And Mary says yes I don't take great Jarvis let's do this. They say Mary.
[00:44:50] Now let me kind of go through something that Mary my objective to get to yes so my first big deal they call Mary up Mary will be open to explore a situation if it were superior to what you're doing today. Mary says well what's the compensation. I said Mary let's be real frank. If the compensation if the job isn't a career move it really doesn't matter what we pay.
[00:45:15] Let's first see if it's a career move. Now Mary is a little bit cynical sort of like the other recruiters I don't know her personally. So she then says well what a career move.
[00:45:29] And I say this Mary from my perspective a career move requires a 30 percent minimum 30 percent non monetary increase.
[00:45:44] So I found interesting what does that mean. I said to some of at least these four components one key component is jobs stretch meaning it has to be a bigger job.
[00:45:55] So I mean maybe my job is five or 10 percent bigger. Another component is job impact meaning it's a more important job. Another component is job satisfaction meaning the mix of work to news gathering more satisfying and as important as anything else probably job growth. Growth has got to be there although some of that's got to be at least 30 percent if you don't get at least 30 percent. Don't take the job amount of what we pay you. That's going to take some time for me to figure out if it's 30 percent there. Here is what I'd like to do. Let me review your latest profile very very quickly. Five or ten minutes I'll just ask you a few questions. I'll tell you about the job to see if we got the 30 percent. If I can't get the 30 percent perfect less that would be a good idea a lot of jobs in this area.
[00:46:38] In Italy you have somebody who would see the job as a critical deal with candidates. Recruiters have to get the candidates to talk first. House sit don't negotiate the job until they know the job. What's the likelihood Mary doesn't want to relocate there doesn't was even looking when you called up this morning. She's a passive candidate. You have to go slow.
Get the candidates to talk first by selling a discussion about a career opportunity
[00:47:00] Don't sell jobs sell the discussion about a career opportunity. That's the tactic in a scarcity situation. Don't use a model that's beef that's supposed to weed people out. Use a model that tracks a main part of that is going down the funnel slowly.
[00:47:16] I just put Mary on the bus. Now I want to ask you this question.
[00:47:21] This is how you get Mary say I'm going to give you my final tactical tip and then I'll get to the final Matrix and it open up for questions. Mary is describing her background. She's managed for people she's been in the same job for two years. She likes the company she likes the people. But all of a sudden she's kind of interested and I said you know I really like your background. The one thing I'm a little bit a little bit concerned about is who she got you so but you're mostly an individual contributor. This this year got me managing six people from the get go hiring two more market product marketing people. This is the most important project we have got a lot of our background and launching this product is critical. My concern is your project and direct management of people is to be a big stretch at more than a tenner for a 30 percent stretch its almost doubling the team. Regardless I like your background I think it could be an interesting fit once you do this. What did you give me some insight of what the biggest project manager I wanted to see for scope and scale.
[00:48:27] Now when you say that in a logical non derogatory situation and if I'm member here this morning they left their house you were thinking of leaving. Changing jobs 10 30 she's talking to a recruiter about this opportunity. It could be a career opportunity and clearly it's about 30 or 40 percent stretch. Typical in that situation. She's on the bus. I've just put her in the backseat and Mary is really excited about this she's going to say no let me tell you about this sounds pretty interesting. And she's going to tell you about her biggest project. She's going to try to sell you and that's another tactical recruiting isn't you selling the candidate. It's setting the stage for the time that he tells you because Mary if she's at a level candidate will get a counter offer she will get a competitive offer she will go home tonight and her spouse is in there is going to say to those thousand kids her husband and kids.
[00:49:26] Hey I got a really interesting call from a recruiter that was pretty interesting and the first thing out of the mouth of the spouses what's the money honey and marriage they say it's not about the money.
[00:49:36] It could be agreed to remove use the reason that candidates have to sell you is because they got to sell everybody else. They know their boss their friends their co-workers their grandparents their kids everybody.
Having a conversation is important, but before that, you need the job to close the candidate
[00:49:49] Recruiting is you controlling the conversation. But if you don't have the 30 percent you're not going to close the candidate. And our real heart is fine that 30 percent.
[00:49:58] That's the key to recruit now obviously we can summarize this with metrics and opening up the court. Q and A I consider four five critical metrics and it's not outstanding outstandings staffing firm in the UK earlier this week only last week to Tuesday so was earlier last week and again I said I said what kind of metrics we have yet James. And he didn't have a lot of metrics. So here's my metrics that I think you're firmly at 30 40 recoups you define qualifier Exactly. Yes I think that is what does this person need to do to be B plus work. OK what they do they have to do to be in the top. They're better than everybody else. That's my four five performance objectives. I define qualifier upfront and I don't leave the court meeting till I have it. Number two I have that end goal is that is candidates for hire. If I'm sending more than four or five candidates in the first time I work with the manager that's the system's out of control. I work as a hiring manager. I'm down to three or four. And if that's a position I've worked with recently I'm down to two or three but I capture quality of candidates for hire for takes me five or six or seven managers want to see more and more people. None of us know. We're just we've got a wild process that's out of control.
[00:51:20] My other one is respond to it and only deal with 30 people to begin with. So I got a good pool at least 50 percent response 60 is better 70 percent is ideal but I'm tracking email response rates five or 10 percent even in a game
[00:51:34] That's it. Sure. No that plan was Vegas lottery. Not to hire a great person a 10 to 15 percent you can just change the game. That's why you have to think scarcity not surplus.
Recruiting relies on tracking. You can be more efficient when you know what to do and what not to do.
[00:51:47] Also one is how many. I call Mary's up Mary up to the world I actually track and I have 12 recruiters. We track how many people do because they haven't he said yes but we want to show you 100 percent.
[00:51:57] I'll take 75 or 80. Would you be open to explorer situation period what you're doing today became engaged with the conversation and you're losing people because you can't even get on the phone with them. A big problem there. And then there's the candidate who Mary was too heavy for this job. Mary I love your background but you managed 50 people already. But you're managing tensity our marketing budget six or seven. It's not a big enough job for me Mary. Let's connect on LinkedIn. And I noticed that I connect now and then I can search on various connections.
[00:52:30] Mary when you were over at ABC companies this person what was your name. Joan Smith you said Joan Smith is on your connections. She looked pretty good. What do you think of her. Oh she's great but she's not looking codified measuring and Ecovillage Schouler up on his desk where she'd be open to chat. Oh sure. Isn't that amazing. I said let me ask you this. Who in your mind is the best person you've ever worked with who could do this what and all that that Mary gets.
[00:52:57] Very nice. Not that that's even though I've told her she's too high until she I get a couple of referrals. That's how I got my 44 40 plan. Those are the metrics they track. If you track those metrics you only need 20 to 25 people make one great view. If you don't track them or you just send in more and more emails out open you can do it. And I don't want to be more efficient doing the wrong thing. I want to be greatly I want to be very efficient doing the right thing in my mind the right thing is offering people great opportunities challenging jobs that maximize their motivation and their opportunity to grow up. I'm cherry picking those people that I'm going to put my recruiting skills on. My job assessment skills my performance based interview skills. I've got to hire a great person that way. So let me kind of summarize quickly an open opportunity.
Summing it all up: identifying the key takeaways
[00:53:47] You want to hire a great person you have to start with a great job and it's not a laundry list of skills. It's a series of performance objectives that Kennedy would find intrinsically motivated and the EDP which is what they could be cut out takes the right strategy. You cannot use a surplus of talent mindset or model in a scarcity of talent. World number 2 it's small that's high touch. I don't need a lot of good people but I'm going to cherry pick the people I'm going after and I'm going to go after them. That to me is why you need a skilled recruiter who understands the job of putting the right people on the bus.
[00:54:18] I'm working like heck getting on the bus and I've got my candidate rejecting my offer but I don't like a candidate rejecting the offer because the time was right.
[00:54:28] I'm happy where I am too busy it's ok if you don't have a 30 percent career opportunity they should reject it. But how many people reject your offers of tenure offers now without actually knowing what they're turning down for the sake of. I don't want to waste anybody's time I don't sell the destination. I sell the discussion now I can network with that person and culprit's not sixth form. I call Mary up she's now a good friend of mine to her three times last year. She's now ready. That's how you build a deep network. I've got to control the conversation. I can't let people say no. I don't mind of saying no. They have four mouths but rarely do they have full knowledge of what they can do and become full knowledge is understanding the 30 percent satisfied but if it is there you go to work as a recruit you have an obligation to you the candidate the company the clothes that person and the metric the right metrics met. So let me just after a couple things. In fact we have a recruiter class this Friday powers leaders are open to audit.
[00:55:30] I know my associate just so we have four seats all the seats available for online classes Friday from 8 to 10 Pacific. Send an email to info at performance based hiring. Give us your link to link then and town leaders are more than welcome to audit the class. We also do a proof of concept. Let's try this out with a small group of hires versus the way you doing it today vs. the way we suggest and see what it does. We can do that in 30 days to show you that this kind of works. Obviously email will give you a personal review of performance space time just to see if it works. Sometimes we actually work with the hiring manager. I'm very happy to do this. I do this a lot is if you can get a recruiter and a hiring manager for a difficult search arrange two or three people in a room either me or one of my guys will or gals will go through we'll show you how to convert from having to do it. It's almost this yes I'll do it. So let me now open it up for questions. Obviously that is there. So Robert now we've got a few minutes for questions. Hang on a little bit later I know some people that might not want to but I'm more than happy to hang out if you have a question or two that needs to be answered.
Employing parts of the model for high volume markets
[00:56:41] Yeah sounds great thanks. We'll get to as many questions as we can so feel free to keep asking but we had quite a few questions come in around high volume hiring or hiring more labor intensive markets and whether the success of using the model on that sort of environment.
[00:56:56] When you say high like it's high in thousands or as high volume 20s so irrespective of that let me answer it if you believe your high volume hiring is bringing you exceptional people and all you have to do is hey you know we got a thousand people on his 20 great wants to fight and keep on doing it. But if the 20 the best of the 20 is not very good then I'd say well you might want to change your advertising. So I wouldn't it mean you can't go one on one in the high vine arena.
[00:57:26] I don't consider 20 as high I might consider if I'm if I'm a recruiter hiring I've got a responsibility hire 20 sales reps over the next 60 days. I'm only talking to two or three or five a week. That's why I'm hiring thousands of people. Well then I'm going to first obvious I got to use technology to do it but I'm also going to use compelling advertising and make sure my advertising is geared to that right group. So I don't know you use the whole system but you certainly is part of.
How to hire someone who needs to grow to fit a job
[00:57:53] Great thanks. Well another question that we've got coming in is how do you convince the hiring manager to hire someone who needs to grow 30 percent to handle the job.
[00:58:03] That's a great question. First off the manager Harry Smith has just promoted Mary into their job. So I said hey look you just promoted Mary and how she's doing. Well Mary she's special. What if I find another Mary for it. OK that's one way the other way is when you really think about the stretch. It's a combination of all of this stuff. The mix stretches no stretch and mix I mean if Mary likes to do system design high level architecture work that might be all that I guess 30 percent of the stress shows. When you think the jobs stretch could be five to 10 percent. So when you bring the 30 percent down.
[00:58:40] A lot of it is logic as a poet we're growing fast or do some other thing so it's not all just stretch meaning a bigger job. But here's the kicker that I tell the hiring manager I said Let's do this.
[00:58:52] Harry I'll show you two people have all skills.
[00:58:56] I'll show you a couple candidates who I think are diverse candidates high potential candidates who have a different mix of skills.
[00:59:01] And you decide you compare a versus B Y2K. I mean it's now that they still block it now they said here's a book called First broke all the rules. It describes what great managers do. They clarify expectations up front.
[00:59:18] Harry don't you agree with Mary can launch a product line in six months. We're not going to compromise on the six. She's got to launch this right away to six months and the average we're not going to compromise on that. So I perfectly agree that we're not going to compromise.
[00:59:31] Don't you agree with me. We can prove America do it. She's got exactly the right mix of skills. I see I got to see this in this case what I've discovered though is unless the manager is shouldn't be a manager.
[00:59:49] Most managers are willing to take one of those things that make perfect sense straight out of the lives of guys. So it's there is a dance there with the hiring manager you've got to convince them that doing is better than having first break all the rules by Gallup prove that Google's Project Oxygen proved it. I mean it's so much research it says horrifying expectations up front is how people are motivated. Now you got to say that candidates see these jobs as a career. Well that could be a little bit a stretch but a lot of mix and more growth. So I think you called the piece you got enough variables there to play the game where you want every question regardless and it's not was that was not a sufficient answer. There's a lot that can go a half hour but we don't have time.
[01:00:31] Thanks so much. And that's the interest of time we are a little over the top of the hour. I think we're going to go ahead and have to wrap things up there but thanks. Thanks again. This was fantastic.
[01:00:41] Thank you everybody for joining Wait wait wait wait. And Robert where you go. Yes. If you'd have a question that was not answered. Email me.
[01:00:56] I do have all the questions that were answered today with emails.
[01:00:58] I have no other questions or even their questions that were delivered to it. So not only those but also the good ones if they're silly you can mechanism.
[01:01:12] There you go. Thanks again. Thanks guys. Take care.