To hire the best talent, define your expectations. In this webinar, hiring managers learn which questions pinpoint candidate motivations and future success.
Introducing today’s speaker: Lou Adler, Founder and CEO of The Adler Group
[00:00:00] Hey everybody is up at the few if you straggled in and didn't get the opening introduction. We asked if your recruiter just put in some of the challenges you have with your hiring managers and if you're hiring manager put some of the challenges you have some of your recruiters. It would be kind of cool too. See both sides and I'm going to have Suzanne look at them I will have an opportunity to look at those because they coming to the screen. But there might be a few and I'll get a sneak peek every now and then but it will be interesting to see. So let me kind of just describe what we're doing I think some of you have been accountants and after you've heard me on some webcast or some of that of.
[00:00:49] Do you want to talk about today.
[00:00:52] The idea of achieving the hiring manager which I call. Q What is queues the hiring super factor now. Part of it is and I'll describe that in a minute. Another part is what I would call implementing a talent scarcity strategy. I couldn't I only saw some of the challenges coming in. Very briefly just when we started the program but typically what I discover is that we tend to think there's a surplus of top talent when there actually isn't a surplus there's actually a scarcity of top talent and when there's a scarcity of top talent it's very very difficult to find people using the same processes. I'm going to contend the real problem most companies have is recruiting and hiring managers don't communicate around the same things. I don't think recruiters understand the job well enough and I don't think candidates understand the marketplace for talent well enough. I want to quickly highlight what I call the hiring formula for success has had an interview somewhat as we promised we'd show you an interview but we got to define the perfect job the perfect candidate and I hold the perfect interview what I call the formula for success. And in fact how many people we have right here this is going to be hard for me to do what I might try. Anyway it's kind of a parlor trick to many people that we have so far signed up a couple hundred I don't know what that.
We spend a lot of time attracting people we don’t want to hire
But I'm going to try to interview every single person on this phone call the same time using what I call the single best interview question of all time. Of course at the end of it you can decide if it was a joke or was it real valuable. And then also how do you take that information and assess candidate quality and I'm actually going to say I'm actually in the show you had a major pre-higher quality of high. So we can do all that stuff and we're doing it an hour and going to answer every single challenging question at that course. Hopefully Suzanne don't ask me many but we'll see if we get it. So that's where we're going here. But I want to kind of focus on this little teardrop over on the right on that sly I makes the contention that if you really looked at all of the people who your company attracts and the people who you actually hire if you actually categorize okay we got a thousand people responding to an end. How many were great were up on the top 25 percent. How many were above average in harmony. You didn't want to hire at all. Well I saw some statistics that basically said the people who get hired often at less than 1 percent. The people who applied your postings are ten times that. Which means that people actually.
[00:03:31] See you and you actually hire is one-tenth of 1 percent. So. It's pretty bad answer that. The Teardrop. From a practical standpoint the board at the bottom is bigger. So we spend a lot of time. Attracting people we don't want to hire. I have a fundamentally different philosophy. Why waste our time attracting people we're not going to hire when we just go find people we are going to hire and recruit. And it sounds kind of weird and I call that point a I only need 20 to 25 people.
[00:04:02] Who are pre-identified as great people. Some of them are going to be direct source. So we're going to be recruiting. But I'm then going to attract and hire them.
To find a candidate that exceeds expectations, you have to define expectations upfront
[00:04:02] Who are pre-identified as great people. Some of them are going to be direct source. So we're going to be recruiting. But I'm then going to attract and hire them.
Now that's what I'm going to kind of talk about today is what I have to do to attract and hire those people. We are all trying to do that if we have a referral. We tend to hire people pretty quickly and that's going to Q and I'm you have identified 20 to 25 direct sources or referred candidates and Linkedin Recruiter is remarkable for pulling that off. And that's why I on the show today. But here's a question just and I think something you guys know this maybe you don't but this is not an infomercial it's just what I do as my company. We train more hiring managers and we train recruiters. Our business is my business is training hiring managers in the methodology of high call performance-based hire. We also train recruiters to find those people that are hiring managers want to interview and hire. But basically. So here's a question that I asked hiring managers you could answer yourself. On paper you can in the answer sheet two and a category. When I get in front of a hiring manager and I talk to a group of 10 or 50 or 150 last summer I talk 150 software managers from a big UX conference from the manager level director level to V.P. level. And I said right now on all those pieces of paper you have around you big flip chart the characteristics of a great person she hired a great candidate from a recruiter. You hired a great candidate. You call that recruiter up and you say thank you for hiring this person this year if that person was hired and the person is absolutely great.
[00:05:45] Could expect say thank you very much. Why was a person great why was this. Why can you now categorize a year later this person is a great hire.
[00:05:55] This is what they all say job after job after job after himself getting entry-level job low job senior-level job. This is what all managers say in engineering manufacturing sales marketing they exceed expectations 100 percent.
[00:06:10] That's number one. I told exceed expectations you to define expectations upfront. Easy to do. They don't have all the skills. They see the expectations and the next thing they say is they work well with other people it coaches their people a manager other people they develop other people great and we can figure that out ahead of time. It's not rocket science we can just find out she's there managing coaching and developing people like they're doing in Georgia. They have political leadership and I hope I find leadership as a plant project can execute get it done. The combination of visualization a lot of it has to do with getting the resources and doing the good job-related problem solving real job problem. Hey I got to design a circuit. I got a wanted company I got to build a territory. They do it. They also fit the culture. They can deal with change and think it is not like excuses they're reliable they're consistent they get dirty and they volunteer to stuff that's over there at none of those things. Not a single one is hard to figure out. Before you hire the person and if we saw each of those we can actually measure quality of hire. So I get managers to buying into this is my first step is let's define the characteristics of great people in general.
The next step: how do you define great people for your job?
[00:07:24] Now we're going to bring it down to how do to define great people in particular for your job.
[00:07:29] On the scorecard.
[00:07:30] This is my job fit index and I kind of go around the circle and I just say hey if I could find someone out just kind of walk you through the idea they say hey let's look at this what if I have somebody and I look at the disserve the great circle the top middle says track relative compare what results it would have by Counsellor's has a track record of doing civil war.
[00:07:53] I say forget the skills from. They have a track record of doing comparable work in a comparable environment.
[00:07:59] We usually see the pass 70 part 70 percent say yes and then ask managers hey what if we get it we can give this candidate a problem or walk through the property and can actually solve problems like we have on our job right today.
[00:08:12] Peter got to go after a tough customer. They have launched a product together design something. If they can figure out how to do that and they tell you how to do it. What they have what I call the end user pattern which indicates in a top 25 percent of their people we can do that. What if they work with compatible teams develop compatible teams. I said if they'd have all those conditions would you at least see the press I rarely had a manager that says Not they said to do all of that others have to have the right set of skills that work. The terms of Guild the skills don't determine or that's a big point that I make with hiring managers. The work determines the skills needed the better people don't need as much skills and experience to get more done. They can learn fast. So why make that a sexton's the skills and experience are the variable in the equation. We somehow periodically figure out if they have all these skills. That's not true. Every single person gets promoted and successful doesn't have the skills. So it is a silly argument to say that the skills focus on performance in the work now either person is saying all that stuff here we're not done yet.
[00:09:23] The idea of queue is it's also reach out for the candidate and oxalate.
For candidates to be interested in your position, they have to see it as an upwards career move
[00:09:27] Q In a moment here for a great job a candid has to see this job as a career move in my mind a career move at least a 30 percent increase had nothing to do with money Asiedu job stretch job impact job satisfaction job. Whatever he has to see this job is intrinsically motivated to maximize that person's satisfaction. And obviously the person has to see you. The hiring manager and the culture as a fit with his or her lifestyle.
[00:09:55] But if you get all of those conditions right you can have a great hire. That's hiring managers as it goes is it going to think differently about how we do.
[00:10:07] And I also get to this point which I describe few which I. That's the Serpell and it's a complicated graph multidimensional I know.
[00:10:21] And this is a set of conditions to experience these conditions although we tend to lose sight of what a set of conditions where candidate quality is in that list the top 25 percent that's critical are in the top 25 percent person time to fill and cost per hire as low as possible. That's pretty cool to get to the person very quickly and at low cost.
[00:10:45] Equally as important if not more important as candidate is highly satisfied. Is excited about that job. And equally as important as half of that we predicted that was going to happen with a high degree of accuracy e.g. the 90 percent.
[00:11:00] That's an unusual set of conditions that qualify a perfect interview. Lowest cost. But when you think about it this happens all the time I've just promoted somebody one of my rockstar product marketing people has just taken over a very difficult project.
[00:11:19] The woman has been awesome at everything she's done and now giving her team of six people she's going out sweetie have kids out of the park.
[00:11:26] I wouldn't be the person who did it managers we hire people they know who I'd want to hire this director of engineering to handle this new project. I work with this person a prior job another can do it here.
Achieving a “hiring utopia” means focusing on the person, rather than the skills
[00:11:38] We've achieved.
[00:11:39] Q What's interesting is when we know somebody and this out of political convenience move that's because the person is a top performer.
[00:11:48] Chief you all the time with people yell when we tell people we get close to we have acquaintances or connections.
[00:11:55] Bill Smith reforging whatever that was to me we rarely achieve. Q When we deal with strangers and that's why I kind of say hey let's just deal with people who we know for people only referred to us or our connections. And that to me is the real value of words and recruiters that we can actually get there. And that's also the value they don't need a lot of people don't meet a lot of strangers. I just need a lot of group referrals a direct source people who provide direct source somebody I'm going to find a connection there see can I get a referral from that person. But that's the idea we have here of changing the rules for hiring late in covers a heck of a lot of that. I think with this Microsoft in the future not talked a lot about that there's another point in this call. I think they can actually make Q even more achievable. But let me kind of describe getting to Q now on a third party. My background has been at least my recruiting career was as a third party recruiter. Start out contingencies and became you take that company started saying hey you're getting a the people force had you do it. So then we started having moved into training. It was based on thousands of placements so we can trial and error and so it was actually worked. It was the conditions we found to achieve. Now they would say they didn't necessarily achieve. Q Because I charge the big fee but that's a different issue. That's a negotiating basis. If you're doing it yourself it didn't cost me a lot to do it. But he then was the conditions of hiring the great person in the top 25 percent 100 percent of the time. We never fell. We actually didn't charge a fee if the person wasn't the top 25 percent we gave the feedback that you know that is a top quality program. We don't want your money. But to get to the top 25 percent. What we did is we defined the work as a series of performance objectives. So it was a great job for the person had nothing to do with skills.
[00:13:52] Would you not let people use skills or do they have to do with the skills to be successful. Now I talked to candidates we don't talk about your skills we don't have this job as a career move for you. This why. Bigger job bigger impact more growth more satisfaction.
[00:14:07] But the best people I don't want it.
[00:14:10] I want to get 20 or 25 percent of the best people in the entire town market at the skills qualified the performance I don't know that you guys but if your recruiter I think you would all agree that sometimes hiring managers don't do the job of assessing candidates. Likewise hiring managers think that recruiters don't do the job of assessing candidates. In my mind they're both right. So early in my career. I was losing good candidates. I knew these people were good.early in my career. I was losing good candidates. I knew these people were good.
Attract top candidates by focusing on performance and offering a concrete career move
[00:14:41] I've worked with them or whatever it was I knew these people were great. I spent more time on my candidates and my hiring managers and I realized I had to become a better interviewer than my hiring manager. And in the process of becoming a better interview her I learned what we created a performance-based interview. This is one that Harvard now we're looking at say Wow this actually does work. This is I'm going to give you one of the two questions. I'll demonstrate that right at the end of the program. Show you how that actually works.
[00:15:09] The performance-based interview of the Apple closed the deal when I started a recruiter never had enough money in the budget. Everybody wants the top 25 percent personal pain average wages. Well you got a problem there. When I realized that if I gave a person a career move the pay was less important. It was a negotiable item not a deal breaker.
[00:15:32] The career move with my mind was a 30 percent nonmonetary increase job stretch job growth job satisfaction and job mix of job impact I had to get to a discussion about that but it was not a deal breaker.
[00:15:46] It was a negotiable item.
[00:15:48] If it was truly a career move but to get a career move ahead have the hiring manager realize that someone at a different mix of experience that they had everything on it. The skill set wasn't going to happen until there was a lot of massaging going on here. But these were the four conditions that we've put together.
[00:16:09] But the key to that was is a defined quality of hire.
[00:16:15] Before I started looking look I'm going to I'm going to go through that now but I'll deal with it. What does this person need to do for this person do if he or she was in the top 25 percent. So I started with a measure of quality that the person could accomplish these things. They would be in the top 25 percent. If a person has accomplished these things would you at least be the person if he or she didn't have the exact mix of skills.
[00:16:41] And the answer is many. So of course I would just say that I would. It was almost like this logic that of course I would personally do this work on a flyer. So that was where we're going here. It becomes more important.
Beware: if you’re in a scarcity market, you may be wasting time looking at the wrong pool of candidates
So let me just ask you this and I really appreciate this Suzanne if you could read what the answers are.
[00:17:02] Are you in a scarcity tablet market where the demand for the best people the top 25 percent is higher than a supply of people or you in a surplus. We eCompanies get such a great friend you're just attracting the top 25 percent of the best people automatically. Just put shares of your surplus.
[00:17:20] And if I could have Susans and just tell me what day the answer to coming at while the scarcity that I see you getting faster as I see it.
[00:17:38] Generally speaking to me when you're at a scarcity situation you can't assume there's a surplus scarcity and then have go there but you can't assume it's just a bunch of great people. Rich people aren't interested in your job. You got it off let's not find more people and post the same job more places let's rethink or even doing it right. So my idea is they only need 20 to 25 people to recruit. I have taught him a great job but now want to take a look at this chart. This is a combination chart of surveys we've done internally. My company and combined it's a mash-up of a couple things and some surveys would link in a five to 10 to 20000 people what I did is over the last two years I just ask candidates and service on its own but it hasn't changed much.
[00:18:24] Once we got through to the 3000 people I just said if you have a job in the last six months how did you find the job. That was the first question and basically those four choices apply.
[00:18:38] I can't I can't read. The thing is networking apply internal promotion or some other reason. There was a purple and the orange of each of those graphic groups is what we're looking at.
[00:18:52] Then I said when you got that job what was your current job hunting. Personal circumstances where you employed unemployed were you fully employed and it tipped are you totally passive. Kind of just ask them how did you get your job and what was your stats.
[00:19:09] Well the underemployed almost 50 50 40 percent got their job through applying 47 network. I mean even the unemployed got the job network people who were unemployed closer to 50 50 people who are tiptoes a some or just flipping about entering the market.
[00:19:27] They're not telling everybody so they haven't made it public that they're looking. They tend to get the jobs at a ratio of 60 to 25 percent so about three to one. Sixty to 22 percent that we do on networking oversupplying passive candidates.
Sometimes, your best bet is to pursue passive candidates
[00:19:41] It's 8 to 1. Typically when you get a passive candidate what happens is they think I'm pretty much a high demand they just say we just look to see what's going on.
[00:19:50] So they kind of look around. So what's an active pamphlet tends to come back then they start looking but still eight to one in terms of networking over apply. So basically says hey you know if you're going after the market it's not a lot of active candidates who apply which you really do is hire a lot of people in their network a direct source.
[00:20:10] Now add even more substance to that argument.
[00:20:15] Here's the breakdown. This is from not only from LinkedIn but I just I'll give you another survey we did with another group of twenty thousand people three years ago last year and two years ago and last year in the world five to 20 percent of any job class are highly at 5 percent for those in high demand positions 20 percent in non high impact positions. So if you're going if you're in a scarcity situation you're can have five to 10 percent of the people actually apply. And of those 5 to 10 percent at least half of those going to get their jobs through networking.
[00:20:51] You're talking about this tiny little percentage of people who would actually do your job and you competing with everybody else just like that. This is why my why am I doing this. I kind of changed the rules of the game tip toes which for the next group represents. 15 to 20 percent and that's pretty constant. It doesn't matter what the demand or not. There's always 15 to 20 percent of the marketplace the town and are a little disappointed but they tend to go through their referral network. People they know passive candidates 60 to 75 percent want to hire them and position it 75 percent low demand 60. So if you're in a scarcity situation the name of the game is going after passive candidate and networking referrals and it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out the marketing aspects of this chart. This is why so then I would suggest to you guys is how many of you are actually spending most of your time networking getting referrals. You spend most of your time on advertising. And I think you look at it you get a teardrop effect you wasting your time weeding out the weak want to spend more time raising the teardrop or getting great candidates.
Take candidates’ intrinsic motivators and put them center stage
Now I go to the strategy situation here by the way Suzanne any questions can they. Yes. I don't want to minimize those.
[00:22:08] Yes there's actually a number of them. Look the back really quickly and just describe how do you identify intrinsic motivators.
[00:22:17] I'm going to do that in a moment. Okay.
[00:22:20] As part of I mean I know I know somebody probably asked that question but I'm actually going to show you the example of a job posting called captious but fundamentally is it so I'll give it I'll give you the short story and I'll give you the slightly longer short story in a few minutes here.
[00:22:40] Generally speaking if you're dealing with a technical person the intrinsic motivator is to be learned more technology.
[00:22:47] If that's not always true but it's somewhat true if you're dealing with an H.R. executive which is example why have I was looking for an HRT in a non desirable location. The only way I knew I could find the person was getting in the seat of the strategic table. That is the desperate wish of all each are people. So I had to deliver on that stuff and they just asked people and I just did work with a major call center 5000 people which I just talked to people quoted. What do they like this job. And we capture that advertising. So I said I want to talk to top 20 Parkerson people and I talk about eight or nine or 10 other companies.
[00:23:23] Ten years ago eight years ago and also the same thing like it was close to home. It gave them nice security and benefits. They recognized as structured but it was the job itself was fun.
[00:23:37] The people I work with was reasonable with once we understood what was motivating them to excel at the job. We just advertised those out if you can then take that piece of information and make it part of a bigger picture. I call job branding. Take a person's intrinsic motivator and this is part of a bigger issue.
[00:23:56] I love to do this work on this kind of technology work and I'm helping build this new medical device that will improve the life of somebody who can take that job and make it part of a company mission or strategy are private now what's called Job branding the person you create is all around the job around the employer brand around that job as it relates to the company. So that's a long answer to a very important question which I would have to see it as loud next time.
The decades-old standard of hiring needs to be turned on its head
[00:24:32] So let me can't get into a strategy.
[00:24:35] Because I believe and I've believed this forever and we changed the strategy the idea is that unfortunately most hiring processes from the day job boards came out in the 90s early 1990s to an applicant tracking systems came on board to the mid 90s to late 90s to today. I believe they're fundamentally designed backwards.
[00:25:03] Got it totally wrong. Now it might work in certain situations but for a town of scarcity situation it does not work. Let me prove that if you're in a scarcity situation which many of you said you are for that specific job think about every aspect of your entire hiring process from them only open to the day you close the deal for big bucks.
[00:25:28] You can categorize every single step every single step and every single hiring process under these four buckets. That one is having bucket which is what people put on their résumé. This is what I have in terms of skills and experience.
[00:25:41] When people post job descriptions they post what the person must have in terms that you can get it through the door. Now if a person passes that filter. So anybody who doesn't have that skills which I will tell you is every high performers person because they have less skills and make some high performance and very diverse candidates its ethnic diversity of different backgrounds for now. But nonetheless you still have this having thing that existing in our ETM process then you get the person on the phone and you negotiate the job before you know what the job is you ask the candidate Okay what kind of skills do you have.
[00:26:15] What's your compensation. And what do you like him or not.
[00:26:19] If you do like what is what's the money what's the pay what's the location what type of to negotiate the job itself before anybody knows about the job. So she even if you have to go keep the conversation about something that's life-changing about nothing.
[00:26:36] No matter.
[00:26:37] You have a great person. Why he or she took the job. The top 25 percent and a hundred percent of the time. Because I like to work I like a manager I like the team I like the culture. This is a career move for.
[00:26:49] But how many people have agreed with that. If you could open a door that all that stuff never gets one and the first conversation but I make the statement that hiring managers are hiring men and of course if the person can do the work they have exactly the skills needed.
[00:27:08] That's logically true if they can do the work they have exactly the skills needed.
Think backwards: tell candidates what they can accomplish in the role before you weed them out based on skill set
[00:27:14] And you as a top person while to took the job it's because of what they could be the future what do you think about hiring processes. This is why we have a two-year drought. This what we spend more time weeding out the weak and we hire the best person who applies while we change the rules. It's a stupid it's a stupid way to design a TSA sensible way to recruit bespoke personnel doing become and a guarantee that the person can do it become an even if your salary is lower than you want to start with it becomes a negotiable item if the job is really a career move as opposed to a filter to gain access to have a conversation. Which is silly we negotiate the terms of a job before we even talk to the person about the job. It makes no sense. But we do it because we get too many candidates. We get efficiency Koslow got one to worry about. I don't have to worry about efficiency Cortona even with 20 people I spend more time with your people and all good people I have the one person can do and become and I have a conversation with that. What they can do pick up this what hiring managers have to do to deliver a dance here because our hiring systems and our mentality is designed left to right I've got to get the hiring that I hate. What does a person need to do to be successful. I don't care what they need. I don't care what they need to have to have enough stuff to do the work. I don't know. Let's define the work before we define the person doing the work and that's sometimes hard to get people to buy into. Know I got to get the candidate to the recruiter to say hey would you call person up and the person says What do I get let's not worry about what you get right away. Let's see if it's a career move. We'll see if diplomacy if we can fit in. I want to have the conversation before I have a negotiation. So recruiters are the orchestrator of this a good recruiter should focus on having a good manager should not let the recruiters filter on skills that you miss all the candidates and all high potential candidates who have difficult field experiences and some of them have less and this is a fundamental rule that I think companies in hiring management say quick that the town's leaders roll its executives role. You can't use a of surplus profits when the talent surplus doesn't exist. And even if it does exist you're not going to get the best people by using it. You'll get some good people I don't know that do the best so let's kind of keep on moving forward. I want to kind of give you some steps on this part and questions again.
You need to know what you’re looking for, and then tell candidates up-front what that is
[00:29:47] The key thing is I don't know if this came out but since my company does train more hiring managers we train older when we go to a company we train all the hiring manager and all the recruiters but obviously it's a ratio of 20 30 to 1. When I have hiring managers what's the single problem now with recruiters who say they don't know the job. Recruiters say hiring manager aren't knowledgeable about the job and are good interviewing and don't want to engage fully and it's both right. But I contend it's because they're thinking differently. They're communicating properly. Here to there. When I take an assignment and I did this a month or first let me kind of give you the most traveled to in my background a little bit different than most people. I've got an engineering background manufacturing background a financial cost control background and I only became a recruiter because I didn't like my boss. Literally I just quit. Four times in one year and since I was running a little company I said I don't need this stuff from you anymore. It is like the over but whether that was stupid or not to do what I did. But after about 15 years of that maybe 15 16 years of recruiting is intolerable book Corporate threats which defined basically those four criteria. You have to tell people a proper they need to do a couple years later. First recall the rules came out which was the Gallop book the first book. Q Well basically said the same thing. I then wrote another book a couple years ago called The Essential Guide for Hiring which really updated it but it really parallels the same thing. I just did it hundreds and my company did hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times. We gave a one year guarantee it was pretty clear that you had to at least tell people what they had to do before you hired them. And if they had done comparable work in comparable environments then you'd do it again. And if the job had at least 30 percent improvement that you could hire this exact. Pretty much exactly what Google's project Foxygen confirmed. And I will work with Harvard professor Todd Rose confirms the same thing.
[00:31:47] You don't know what to looking for is problematic to be an either person. I know that yet we write skills and when you think about acquaintances and people you know most of us don't have the skills the experience is the reason harder because they are top performers they get stuff done. When we hire a stranger we changed roles. We don't hire people differently local schools we don't even think about our best performers. We talk about oh they have all these skills and the best performer but they're going to be around in a scarcity situation.
Make it clear what the candidate needs to do to be successful in the role
But here's what I do when I define the job. When you think about it a job description listening skills experiences competencies in education is a person description. That's not a job description that defines a person other than responsibilities in some vague way. Why was f man who is he. Let's put the person description of the parking lot. What does the person need to do to be successful.
[00:32:38] And it always comes out six or seven performance objectives build a team launch a new product figure out why we can't get this manufacturing problem and yield up to ninety-nine point nine percent or six sigma.
[00:32:49] They do stuff in every single job has a series of two or three major pectus and through some of what they do in the first 30 60 90 days with the first six months what they did first year they call it the process of success and I want to mimic people. I don't compromise on a performance. If you need a person to do that work that's what's happening. I'm okay with that.
[00:33:11] Give me a little relief on the skills any that opens up the door of all diverse candidates all tens of candidates all returning military that everybody kept their older young black or white. We were yellow they can do the work. To their job. I had the number one labor attorney agreed that that's more objective than skills.l will give you a quick demo of the whole thing but I'll give you a sense of getting started.
[00:33:54] To me that's the communication line that the recruiters and hiring managers have to have them as part of the intake meeting I said why would a person who's not looking top 25 percent person largely passive can even want this job. That's invalidate Proposition. And this is why marketing and what not. This is going to motivate this person to take this job. Why. What's in it. What's the long term.
[00:34:20] This is where I get to 30 percent solution because I tell the hiring managers as a recruiter perspective I cannot possibly want looking what I can give them not to talk about the money am I giving them extra money but that's not. That's not my negotiating tool my negotiating goals. I will talk to you about a career move. So somebody calls up and says Lou what's the money. I said Hey let's talk about your next career move. So what's a career move. I said well is the guy who has to have a combination of 30 percent. Some of it could be in job stretch fiber 10 percent some job impact 5 10 percent job satisfaction and you do more work that you like to do. And obviously long-term goals. Happy that I got to give you at least 30 percent. That's going to take some time to do. That's my definition of a career move.
[00:35:03] The difference in what you're doing out and what we're doing what you're offering. But at the hiring manager does it give you that information on doing as much checking skills.
[00:35:14] So this is where I'm going here.
[00:35:16] I've got to understand the cities in have to pay for it here.
What matters: can this person do this work, in this environment, and be motivated to do it well?
[00:35:28] So your opinion you know if someone has posted a position of say a week ago and they start interviewing a bunch of candidates and they're finding some really good ones but then they just realized and say today after your session that the job posting wasn't exactly what they needed would you suggest that they start the search over again from scratch. Or do you suggest that they hire one of these good or great candidates and let them grow into the role.
[00:35:53] You gave me a forced choice question Suzanne for sure.
[00:35:56] You do your shipping to be I don't know. I do both. Yes. Start over. But that might be a very good person who snuck into cracks at all. So do both find the best people who can do that work who haven't responded to yet but don't compromise on the work. And then also rewrite them. I'll give you an example right towards the end I think. I hope I don't overpromise here because now I'm looking at I don't think I actually have that post. I've described the posting I promise if you send me an email info to the group I'll send you the email that I had that I got 20 awesome H.R. executives to apply to a job in a worse location in the Midwest. They all had to move. And yet that was totally secondary. The job was so awesome in terms of opportunity. A relocation became a secondary consideration. Not positive but talk about that hate that we got a strategic move for it. So that's how I would answer that question.
[00:36:51] But the ice age hit me you think about it this is why I say this is what the fundamental problem with recruiters and hiring managers. They're not on point with respect to the job I mean if you are hiring manager I mean just think about your sales rep. Recruiters the sales rep that hiring manager is. How do we feel about sales reps when they don't know the product. I'm going to contest every single recruit who does know that job is coming across as a used car salesman. You're trying to fill the position. I look at it. I'm affecting a person's life and I take that responsibility seriously. And I don't know a hiring manager not reflecting a person's life. I'm going to give you a top 25 percent for it. I personally like I'm a third party. I'm going to charge you well after that it will be nothing if you get the company 5 percent be insignificant but you can't do it.
[00:37:38] You're doing it you can't find a job. A series of performance objectives. I know you have to know my source I have to know it. The prospect of this person's going to change the job they're going to get a counteroffer but if I have the best career move for I don't care if they get a counteroffer I'm going to win. I don't have to pay the most money I have to give the best job and everybody in the hierarchy has to agree with this job isn't there to assess the candidate is Paul the person is where they went to school how shiny their shoes are and how prepared they are in the interview which none of that matters. What matters is how can that person do this work in this environment. And is that person motivated to do this work. Is that job a career move. You get those conditions right you're you gain and that's what I'd look at interviewing.
Why is interviewing so awful at predicting success? We overvalue first impressions
[00:38:19] I mean here's the. The interviewing method you think about interview Mrs Schmidt 100 done this for hundreds of years you look at behavioral interview interviewing in general your ability to predict on the job performance in a unstructured interview is only 7 percent more accurate in talking point 120 years of research to prove that behavior increases at 62 percent see-through reason if you don't know the job. If you don't know the jobs it's problematic yet a person who didn't want to do this work and all the people who didn't apply really getting the filtered up. If they could see that that's actually good job interviewing accuracy is only one component that actually can reduce powerlessly is commonly done. We do quantifier the shift missed all the people who didn't even apply but think about it. This is why interviewing is so awful. We overvalue first impressions of course we don't know the job the environment the manager the team or the culture.
[00:39:20] We're just guessing we all text people over text fields managers and everybody else salespeople overvalue their intuition. Although the person I am.
[00:39:32] They always cover three or four factors not the whole this is the work we do with heart.
[00:39:37] So we can call up a handful of people who is now the author. He is the author of the end of average adjustment. He's a Harvard professor. He's got a center for individual achievement. He's also been made this recently the director of education for the Muppets because he believes how people are educated from preschool to Grade School to high school to advanced educations even on the job is fundamentally flawed.
[00:40:04] He found performance-based hiring without you guys actually figured it out that it's not can't you just look at what I call basic competencies powered ability to do the work management organizing yourself and others team collaborative thinking problem solving and motivation. Those are the dominant characteristics and we all measure those behavioral movements.
[00:40:24] There's a pretty good job later. Not a great job to figure out what if this is entirely is. It's in relationship to this is a formula. It's in relation to the situational factors.
Why do good people underperform? They don’t like the hiring manager
The job do I want to do that work. The manager. Do I want to work with him or her in the cultural areas or the organizational culture. The pace and the resources are good people. I mean you can get the basic competency right that's relatively easy. The situational factors are the hard-won the good people underperformed generally speaking because it is like work. It wasn't the expectations weren't clarified what Gallup found out to Google's Project Oxygen found out manager style was important and a leader of a delegator they micromanage corporates.
[00:41:07] That's important. So if you don't look at the job in the context of the environment and collectively that's what drives motivation.
[00:41:14] So I can be very motivated to do some jobs so I can't be motivated to do your job even though it's symbolic. I don't like hiring manager.
[00:41:23] I would work. Before I quit I was running a small manufacturing company I worked 14 hours a day and loved every minute of it. My wife and family and love it and I loved when my boss the group president came down every Thursday. So he motivated me the time he left. I'd leave. I just couldn't take it. That was a lot of work but like if you quit four times the executive vice president Caplan's only to come back and want to do it as it was. He was so demotivate so we know people we love people workforce are demotivate told us that the motivation is a situational factor that is natural. Very few people mostly do everything. So what we try to do is we assess that. So that's why I'm going to give you how much we are going to find to interview everybody.
[00:42:07] It takes about four minutes. We have no time to interview everybody and summarize. I think we do right. Suzanne.
[00:42:13] Yeah I think so.
[00:42:15] OK so here I'm going to give you the short version of the most significant question of all time. I call it the MSA question the most significant ecology question is what we train our managers around this question.
[00:42:27] We train right out of the question Sue but we train around this question of support please.
The big question to ask candidates: what is your biggest career accomplishment of all time?
[00:42:33] Imagine that I'm going to interview for 15 minutes only 15 minutes I'm going to ask you one question and the question is can you tell me about your most significant career accomplishment all time to be an accomplishment that I spent 15 minutes truly understanding.
[00:42:53] I would get a great sense of who you are and what you bring to the table. So think about your most significant career accomplishment most significant whether you like it or not. Probably a one time projects I can get my arms around it.
[00:43:04] The biggest thing you've ever done and I'll see my job is is as big as or bigger than the floor and the fit.
[00:43:13] It's not it's too my job isn't big enough you'll like it but it's too big you might not be able to handle it.
[00:43:17] But let's use that as a benchmark and I give everybody 30 seconds to write something down. Sometimes even tell candidates we're going to do this but we get it. And I still think about it as long as she does tomorrow. That's the most significant accomplishment question in your mind.
[00:43:33] You don't like these questions down south. If you go to our website or even Google look at those most significant accomplishment question you'll see this is not the most the biggest one but this was not one of my first Willington infuser articles I think it's that close to 2 million page views. This question alone didn't just go with insulting to average most to give a capsule. But think about how you would answer it. So imagine you're in my office. I interview you if I tell you it's only 15 minutes but hey can you give me an overview.
[00:44:04] Roger and you spend a minute or two tell me what it is.
[00:44:13] And is able to go back to the beginning give me a snapshot of the project itself. What were the circumstances and why did you get selected for this. Did you volunteer for it if you did why and if you were saying that why did the volunteer work why did somebody volunteer you for the note. Fast forward by the way when that actually happened. How long did it take in this process. What was actually a composite yet you snapped of the. So I can see the big differences. What was the biggest two or three biggest challenges you faced two or three biggest challenges you faced which is the biggest lie. What's the deal. Walk me through the challenge how you figured out how you solve it how you went from eight is the so had put the problem together the plants giving it the resources they executed and what the results were.
Pay attention to the candidate’s process of success
[00:44:56] I assume you put a plan to get it right.
[00:44:59] Was the plan like that called the process of success. Walk me through how you built the plan and the plan got the resources and did you actually achieve the plan.
[00:45:08] How do you overcome obstacles that you faced along the way. What was the biggest problem we faced what with raise up in what was the biggest decision you make. This is unprecedented table M.R. so this doesn't go as fast.
[00:45:22] I mean it's. And you guys sometimes train people to give you the right answer because some people can go off tangents.
[00:45:30] To me some examples of took the initiative from a technical perspective from a team perspective from a concern which you didn't like. I'm really get lots of examples of where you went the extra mile.
[00:45:42] What you like most what you like least what would you do differently if you could take it over and then at that 15-minute market he would. It's over.
[00:45:51] So we got to leave but the recognition did you get for this was this was your most significant career accomplishment. What kind of recognition did you get formal recognition. He had both you get a raise you get an announcement a letter from the president and you are mine was that recognition appropriate given the work.
[00:46:08] We did. We had a recruiting workshop in San Francisco last week. I asked people to do that and I said okay that's the end of it. What I have learned anything about you as a result of that question people say yes yes yes I would. What I learned about and people say stuff like tenacity problem-solving team skills team management.
[00:46:27] Don't give up leadership what if they gave a lot of stuff and we wrote them all down and were all behaviors.
[00:46:35] There are compositional technical skills and I didn't ask a single technical behavioral or skill question. So tell me about your biggest accomplishment. All those behavior skills and competencies are subsets of the biggest accomplishment their umbrellas.
Ask behavioral-type questions, but tie them to performance
[00:46:52] So we do less behavioral type questions but we time through a performance and then compare that biggest accomplishment to my biggest need. Major.
[00:47:00] Done. If you're not even close you're out of pitching.
[00:47:04] If you're too high. Not a good idea. Why would you take the job it's not a big enough job for you. I want people who they would say wow what I'm looking for is people who are probably 20 to 30 who've seen my job as a stretcher not overstretch but as a stretcher and I tell managers you don't take responsibility for giving this measuring interviewing skills or presentation skills.
[00:47:25] We're measuring performance. I actually don't like people who can gladly give me all these answers.
[00:47:31] People can have pulled out of this to tell me the truth that it's literally pretty rehearsed I know they just present it so I'm trying to really understand the true person's troop performance.
[00:47:42] We also discovered is candidates good candidates those in the top 20 Parkerson will pass and appreciate that you've been able to tell you why I'm in the top 25 percent but I'm also then comparing that to my job and if you're familiar with solution selling this is called a discovery process. That's what I wanted and associate the job ahead of the vote. This is a lot of work. Why. Why would I not want this conversation. I have the candidate wata negotiators up at my job offers 23 percent increase over what they've done. Then as the location becomes negotiable. Well the conflict becomes I'm looking for that opportunity that different from what you've done all of my job entails more people more budget bigger impact more important but the key to interviewing is fact-finding peeling the onion not a bunch of questions you.
[00:48:32] Ask them what we do. I ask this question for. I ask this question three or four times throughout an interview. Now remember I have a performance-based job description.
[00:48:42] That said the person has to launch a team build a product open up a new territory. What I do is I say it's great. Let me tell you one of the things we have to do in our competition in this job we have to launch a complete new territory in the northeast that's never been open before for this new product line. What with we've ever done that. So we do is we have these performance-based questions for every one of the performance objectives. The job description the performance-based job description and we start seeing a trend line of performance over time and that's how we assess competency.
Get specific evidence from a candidate to support their potential to succeed
[00:49:16] That's how I can shoot the that's weird.
[00:49:31] I can't seem to the we can get word down on the summary slide performance-based hiring process.
[00:49:46] Somehow I've lost that ability which is strange but you don't buy time. So by having that question that allows me to assess all these factors persons trend line of performance over time e.g. repair are they in the top 25 percent have them on the side projects ahead of time. Have they gotten awards in honors.
[00:50:09] That illustrates the problem-solving questions a different question that you have to find them yourself. The second most important question which is the problem solving question when everyone has those factors in the product performance speech output index can be assessed using that type of questioning policy environment like what box like what kind of culture to thrive and what kind was to thrive in all those fact-finding questions allow me to reveal this and what I offer what I suggest to people as don't go into it. Yes no latitude of voting. Look at each of those factors on the job that index and get specific evidence from everybody write them on a 1 to 5 scale 1 be totally incompetent by being a rockstar and get evidence and get everybody in a team to agree whatever that writing may be.
[00:50:56] There's a wide diversity of ranking system is out of control it's problematic to go hire at the person but everybody tends to agree hey there probably is two and a half three and a half whatever the number that they're around the same number.
[00:51:08] It's probably the right number but we really dig deep into the candidates performance to measure to see if there is a threat. That's how I've read I measure 3 qualifier before the higher and since I can also use that same exact measurement as I climbed the job. Three months later and how if we remeasure these factors how's the candidate performing we say Okay now I can get feedback. Well we now have a quality of higher effort the higher measure has extended performance.
[00:51:36] Well what happened on the job. Well that's the reason it was OK or we did a thorough job of interview or whatever it is you by focusing on measuring the performance during the interview I called a higher performance review hey here's the work we need done what have you done that similar.
In summary: recruit aggressively, emphasize job assets, and ask the right questions to assess the candidates on a job fit index
[00:51:55] We kind of summarized in this I'll see what's going on.
[00:52:00] That's what she was going out here to pick up that contract here.
[00:52:07] So it's hard to summarize what we said. It will open up over time. We have two questions.
[00:52:11] First off I said hiring a top person and I suggest using performance-based hiring and I'm sure there's other ways to do it. But from my perspective I tend to work with very few people they target many of those people ahead of time and I recruit the heck out of. So I identify 10 people. I've got to get eight of them to call me and I'll do it multiple times. I can't give up because I'm not with a lot of people so my focus is maximizing response rate. I tend to focus on trying to get 20 people 10 direct source that I work by text talk to 10 referrals and I spend a lot most of my time getting to that 20 length it gets me there so easily. To me I have to say they've taken the burden out of it. So in my mind it's being able to identify great people and networking with great people. That gives me the benefit performance-based hiring. Great job sourcing that focuses on 20 great people or outside of interviewing a focus is on past performance and closing the deal offering people a 30 percent non monetary increase. The goal is fewer candidates more intelligent sourcing and aggressive recruiting. That's my sweet sweet spot. Predictify candidates have been looking for V.P. HRR in a bad area. What I did is I found senior directors of big manufacturing companies who would see promotion and getting a seat at the table is a big win. So I tend to look for candidates very quickly who I think this person have to pick the company from this organization and put them in this organization. The growth is better trackwork it has better long-term opportunities better. When I look for candidates I'm looking for people who I can instantly see to see the jobs approve but I think backwards.
[00:53:55] I emphasize what people can do and become in a scarcity situation. You can't assume there's a surplus. And I believe you'll get every single applicant tracking system. They have the same filter have yet to become an element of the people because they never had a conversation about winning and become negotiator's job about it which makes no sense to me.
[00:54:15] That paper get dequeue and we get that we think we get it through people who are direct relationships for research candidates or first or second-degree connections. There's some common reference to dealing with strangers is how you get that beanball when you spend. I think too many recruiters spend too many time dealing with strangers. Hopefully that fine I'll spend less time dealing with getting first and second to reconnections people I know but to do it you have to know that you are what a person does that.
[00:54:45] Now they had an and successful you gotta have at least one question before misspeaks interview. What was the biggest accomplishment related to this got me through another Copley's related to that but eventually by the end of the interview poor person tired. They have given me a detailed background or accomplishment related to every single thing.
Ask your candidate: forget the money, do you want this job?
[00:55:03] Every performance objective written on a performance piece shocks which that gives me the ammunition to assess the person on our index and it also gives me the ammunition to suggest that a candidate gives why I think this is a career move. So let me handle this before I open up to any questions that we have time with you as a recruiter use a hiring manager before you make another single offer before you make another offer to another candidate. Call a person 3 or 4 days before the offer and say you know we talk to her very serious about making you an offer but I want to ask you a very important question. Forget the money. I don't care for paying you more than you think is fair. I want you totally forget the money put in them. Do you want this job. You really want the job because if you don't want the job I think we should stop right now. They say yes I do want John to tell me why. And you want to hear I the job I'm going to grow faster and do this work which is more satisfying than a work with you the manager I can work with the team I'm going with the culture and they tell you with real evidence of what they've done is they've heard news that they want this job.
[00:56:16] Because guys recruiting is it you sign the candidate getting the candidate to sell you that candidate is not going make the decision along he or she is going to make with their friends their families their spouse their kids their co-workers their current boss and that recruiter is trying to select candidates that they can clearly see that your job offers the best career move amongst competing are alternatives you will maximize your close rate. If you do everything else we've talked about you maximize your response rate too. That's how you hire great people and it does require the hiring manager recruiter to work in lockstep. So let me tender for that. Any questions I'm happy to answer as many as we can. Also I guess you only have one minute but I'm going to hang in a few minutes if anybody wants to hang out with often Lou.
[00:57:00] OK. When asked three questions because everyone who has a question please feel free to enter and I'll send me over to Lou. You can also contact him his contact information is here. If you have any questions about links and solutions and how you can use these tools feel free to contact us or contact information is here. And also we do have a survey so free to send us your comments your thoughts things that you like to learn more about things that you might fall into touch on in the future and we'll be sure to show these results with them as well.
Look to see if the candidate has gone the extra mile to discover if the candidate is motivated
[00:57:30] Okay so let's go into questions. The question here how many jobs are about it. Many jobs are about relationships and many are about creative reasoning.
[00:57:48] Tanya I'm going to assume that I know the answer is that seemed to be hard for me to figure out without some clarification but I assume it's something about passion for people that it is who they are. Maybe you did kind of yeah.
[00:58:02] How do you evaluate passion and carpentering.
[00:58:06] Let me say that motivation. I think it's a great thing. When I ask people and I kind of indicated but obviously you wouldn't do to try it out when I'm interviewing a candidate. The A was before I ever actually recommend a person gets hired to work. And I'm often there as part of the debriefing session. I've interviewed the person for an hour to everyone else an hour or so and I imagine maybe three or four. What I do is they say let's find out where the candidate took the extra initiative. So every single accomplishment I'm asking hey what will you go the extra mile. You take the initiative what do you do things you didn't need to do that you knew you had to get.
[00:58:42] I'm trying to get people really take the initiative a lot. But then I categorize that initiative. Where did they take it. Was it helping Pierce. Was it dealing with at senior level executives dealing with customers breaking down walls. Was it a technical challenge a technical problem. After a while you start seeing a pattern of where people are truly passionate. That's their state of flux. It's with their internal driver internal motivation. I then look at my job but you can't motivate somebody to do work they don't want to do they've got to be motivated by a motivated by the mission or they are motivated by the work itself. They go to then buy the TV. Is it the hiring managers. Grow it. That to me is probably the most important discussion. But I recommend never ever hiring anybody who isn't passionate about doing the work you need done. So we create these five or six performance objectives at the end of the day what's most important. What can you do.
[00:59:32] What can't you possibly compromise from thinking out of health. Global health scientists and health field we're all everybody happy to be these understood medical technology and how it was used and how to be able to feel great of dealing and getting in front of customers and explaining all this awesome technology.
[00:59:52] But the deal breaker for this job is to add tour for the job.
[00:59:56] The deal breaker was how to get these people to agree to the meeting. You had to get these pharmacies and you get these a hospital administrator you get these surgeons who are state of the art to sit in a meeting for an hour you can present your thing to him to do that.
[01:00:11] But those didn't work. They couldn't get the meetings they couldn't do their job and nobody knew that.
[01:00:15] I just said what's the deal breaker. And that's what it was. So that's a long answer. Get passionate about something that answer you can tell but I got to tell you that's the deal breaker. Every single person who fell on the job knew it brilliant people I bet a lot of these global health scientists all preach these leaders in their field they couldn't they were afraid to get people call them and get them to a meeting and a meeting of 10 or 15 people so interesting.
This system works across the board, regardless of the position or the candidate
[01:00:38] If you have one more question right Suzanne with you there.
[01:00:42] Does your system work across the board regardless of the position whether it's early or in that case. If not what are some the differences within that again say exactly the words you just said. I didn't hear that. Sure. Does your system work across the board regardless of the position for a competitor. Please yeah I think it does.
[01:01:05] I mean I we worked so we didn't think it would have. Because when I started as recruiter I had only done a three-year SAAF people and that was engineering accounting manufacturing and then managers and directors and VPM and etc. So I started out at that level when we started doing the training which was now like 15 or 20 years ago 15 years ago we had a project with in and out burger. And I just say that because this is maybe even 20 years ago where they wanted an interview methodology when they were opening up 100 stores in the West Coast to California they only had about 30 to 250. We created this live interview. How do you interview people so we started asking the same kinds of questions. Where did you go the extra mile where you take responsibility. We then did it help the YMCA hire 100000 camp counselors. The same thing is a 16-year-old managing kids 8 9 10 11. The same thing. We asked people where did you go. What was the criteria for success. What did you do. Where do you go the extra mile. So we looked for certain things that were worked out. We did it for call centers. We did have poor people selling incoming call centers an outbound call centers and it high. Quite frankly that's surprising. People ask me that question 20 years ago I didn't think it would. But then we did it and it did. Human nature is human nature. People are motivated. They demonstrate the same levels of responsibility commitment. I would say the younger the person though it's going to be more behavioral oriented for the 10000 or for the YMCA counselors. Was responsibility preplanning proactively helping people young people that there's real need to give back to people. So we really look for that which is a call out of behavior but we wanted real tangible examples as it got as you go into a professional you know two to three years after the entry level it really is about the work and the content of the work and the people they do that. So but it does work with minor modifications me media.
You can find the best candidate, but if they can’t work with the company’s manager, you’ll be back at square one
[01:03:03] Time for one more question.
[01:03:04] Oh I do I have time for three more but I don't want to get some people leave if they want to listen some stories are so great.
[01:03:13] Well let's take one more question. Any additional questions I'll be sure to send them over to you. But how about if you have great people but they just don't stay at the company because the culture is not when it panned out to be.
[01:03:26] That's a good question. So when me go back to when I was a recruiter nurses said must be like No I'm old I'm older than most of you when I started to both of you weren't born which is somewhat depressing as I do this when I start as a recruiter.
[01:03:41] Somebody told me an adviser said wanted to give you. They basically said hey little we like your prosthetic. It wasn't exactly like this but it was a performance space. They said you know I don't give you a Kintyre every single search for a couple if you give us a one year guarantee.
[01:03:57] I could do that but I did it.
[01:04:00] What did you got. Religious. Because that was the key issue was the question you want to make sure I was pregnant. Question What was the question again. I apologize.
[01:04:10] What was Lori. No no problem. Three people you hired them.
[01:04:17] I got the people underperformance. So now I understand where I'm coming from here. I appreciate that Suzanne. The idea was if that person wasn't intrinsically motivated to do that work in that environment that kind of manager who would fail. And we found out that was really people and this was that part I said the hiring formula for success. That's the thing the professor Rose and I talk about is the situation the context of the job. It wasn't just the ability to do the work and motivation to do the work. Motivation was not fully internal maybe half the motivation was how motivated person. What drove motivation this was the other question was about passion is I have to understand that. When I look at me and I say the reason I quit I didn't I don't like direction. Yeah I fail fly higher I'm OK but I just don't give you any direction that was my group president wanted to overmanaged me and he was not micromanaged I couldn't deal with that. So it's exactly the same thing as you got to look at the context of the job. So Professor Rose's book The End of average and he really talks about in hiring the idea of context is key. The job itself the culture the environment and the manager in the place the resource. And that's what I found when I was doing this many many years ago is to give you a guarantee you got to get serious. And I took. Surprisingly I took it more seriously than a hiring manager. I did it purely. I didn't want to start over again. It wasn't this altruistic thing. I think maybe it became altruistic but I just don't have time to do searches over again. And after 15 hundred placements we all get in this is overcome with no year. We have four of us. So it was 15 or 20 years but nonetheless after 15 hundred placements we only had to invoke that guarantee a one year guarantee five percent a time 75 times because we were religious about getting it right.
[01:06:10] And then over half of those were that person couldn't deal with the manager. That was the dominant culture. Let's be refracting of agriculture but if you can't work with your boss. So to me that's the key component of culture. So hopefully that was helpful. Guys look forward to chatting with you meeting you. And yes you know we do our own podcast our own webcast into different totally different design on a totally different place on the Internet we have all the time and introduction to perform space. So hope that was helpful. Everybody I look forward to chatting with you and let me leave you Suzanne with your final words of wisdom.
[01:06:45] Thank you so much Lou. This is so wonderful some great feedback here but we appreciate more so please feel free to finish or complete this survey monkey link by clicking on that link here on the screen. And of course we was always available so feel free to reach out to him and we hope to see you next time on next month or next webcast. Thank you so much.